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12/06/05 04:14 AM
Just Because You Can . . . Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

Just Because You Can . . .

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12/06/05 10:54 PM
Fancy Schumancy new Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

II too have seen this problem and often need to send a design back to have it simplified. Many times the design engineer will challenge these request because if they have done it once before to them it is “open season” and they should be able to continue. Generally when explained to them the burdens the shop has with the fancy or not so simple features that do not add value, they understand and try to comply. The other side of the coin is the design engineer has customers and sales that continue to ask for more than they really need, they want a design a certain way, they don’t care how it’s made, and want it yesterday for next to nothing. They are often given little or wrong information to work with and are under pressure to get it done fast. I don’t think people want to do a bad job but do overlook some details for others. I do think that the squeaky wheel does get fixed, so instead of being lazy and blowing it off why don’t you (we) go back and get it changed and tell them why without assuming they are lazy.

12/08/05 10:13 PM
'Just Because You Can . . .' new Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

I hear ya Marinus and totally agree. I have also seen design engineers spend literally weeks to get a blend on a part when the client is chomping at the bit for parts and toolmaker sits idle. All for what, since the tool maker states the blend is not needed since it is a natural feature that is generated by the tool making process anyway. As a product designer I have to say we are fall prey sometimes to make the parts as realistic as possible and sometimes loose site of the big picture. Thankly I keep my feet on the ground 99% of the time. But yo know you get that new release of your software with that cool feature and you just gotta try it on something. Its a case of the WOW! cool new feature but totally counter-productive. So make enhancement requests to you software company be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. ;-] TomL

10/11/06 08:09 AM
Re: Just Because You Can . . . new [re: ]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

This was the point I was trying to make in the “Increase Solid Model Value with 3D GD&T” topic. Making a drawing lets more eyes see the design.

I remember a time when I got a layout at Pratt and Whitney on a protective shield for the afterburners. It was basically designed the wrong way with the split on the radius instead of on the outside edge. I made the Chief draftsman aware of this and they sent it back to the design engineer.

The parts I am seeing from the design staff without drawings are so expensive and difficult to make that I can only surmise the no one is really scrutinizing the parts.

10/11/06 08:09 AM
Re: Just Because You Can . . . new [re: ]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

I think you will find three key reasons why designers continue to have bizarre parting lines.
1. Not talking to the manufacturing people and truly understanding the mfg process. Particularly in this case an open tool.
2. Industrial Design drives the look of the design and ID likes curves, especially cool blends
3. Designing without ever even trying to "define" a partling line/plane first.
I feel your pain, but don't blame it on the CAD. There are just as many and probably more examples where CAD saves the day in todays lifecycles. If it didn't, we still be on mylar.

10/12/06 07:33 AM
Re: Just Because You Can . . . new [re: Norm]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

It has nothing to do with CAD.. it has all to do with garbage in garbage out.. CAD just allows more garbage...

Tom L
11/06/06 07:22 AM
Re: Just Because You Can . . . new [re: Norm]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

Well, all this is also I sign of evolution. Back in the early 1900's cars were square and black, because thats all they could manufacture. Now we the technology to put the PL's on blends, at wierd angles and even with "undercuts" that don't require cams. So ID is in its glory and its really up the the manufacturers to make thier dreams come true. So if they bark about expense, then the balls in their lap to either pay it to get their dream or don't dream so big.

11/30/06 09:52 AM
Re: Just Because You Can . . . new [re: ]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

Its not unusual for people to "play" with the technology and do things just because you can. I recall one of my first jobs that got me into engineering consulting. I was acting as the Mfg - Engineering liasion. A truly wonderful sheet metal part was transfered over to my Cad/Cam system for a manufacturability check.

It was a masterpiece of bending and welding. Unfortunately, it couldn't be manufactured, at least not in our factory at the time. I sent the drawing/model back and received a storm of critics from the design department. I escalated it to the engineering department director, who promply dismissed my critic also. He saw the bends and folds were beautiful, a materful use of the CAD tools at hand.

I finally escalated it to the VP of Engineering, there I was surrounded by a heavyweight engineering staff and I only a first year Mfg Eng. and that was pushing it, as I had just come out of the Air Force from being a Flight Engineer/Jet Mech.

We all went to the big conference room, I had printed out the drawings and an estimate of costs to actually build the series of components; a few fuel tanks. While the sheet metal costs and fabracation process was cheap, the end result of how it had to be build would be very expensive I told the VP of Engineering. I had estimated the eight tanks we could make would cost about 10 million.

The design engineer bristled at such an estimate and asked how could I justify such. All during this time the VP of Engineering was stairing at the drawing and smiling. He knew where I was going.

I told the design engineer that actually the first seven would cost less than a million to produce however the last one would cost the company nine million in insurance and fines, because someone was going to ask.

The Engineering Manager shouted ask what? I responded simply, "where the sheet metal mechanics went? We only have eight and when the last one is gone someone is going to ask questions. He asked again what do you mean?

In order to build as designed I'll have to seal a mechanic inside the tank of each one. The design was such that you could only assemble and weld the assembly from the inside and the fuel port was not large enough to allow a man to exit it once sealed.

At that moment the VP got up and asked the Design Manager did he actually check this design? The manager himed and hawed a little and said he'd use the system to chech it. And again the question did you check the design yourself rather than a report that showed all the edges mated cleanly.

Needless to say, just because you can...

(Stranger )
12/06/06 08:35 AM
Re: Just Because You Can . . . new [re: Bseitz]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

and stories just go on and on...

I was just a draftsman.. got a afterburner ring cover layout... it was formed along the radius... I showed it to the Lead and said wouldn't this be better if it was formed flat on the tube...

The engineer came down and picked up the layouts.. to redesign it..and that was before CAD...

(hmm.. the detail parts were the design review, hmm.. pondering on this. Do we need assembly drawings??.. or is that now a planning department function???? it seems to me engineering is sluffing off a lot of responsibility)

if you go to the 3D annotation post.. you will see that there is no need for drawings any more... from the parts I have had to detail there is also no part reviews being done..

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